# Need Info on the signing.pem and cas.pem file

**URL:** <https://openziti.discourse.group/t/need-info-on-the-signing-pem-and-cas-pem-file/1828>\
**Category:** Building/Development\
**Created:** [November 24, 2023, 6:56am UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/need-info-on-the-signing-pem-and-cas-pem-file/1828 "2023-11-24T06:56:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![devawasthi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@devawasthi](https://openziti.discourse.group/u/devawasthi)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 6:56am UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/need-info-on-the-signing-pem-and-cas-pem-file/1828/1 "2023-11-24T06:56:47Z")

</div>

I am trying to setup ziti from scratch ( 1 controller , 2 routers (priv/pub) ) and created the pki using the ziti cli. I was parallely looking at the ziti setup that i created using the express install. Root ca, intermediate ca, signing ca, all these certs makes sense to me, but i came across a signing.pem and cas.pem cert which i am not sure where they came from and what are they used for, please help

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TheLumberjack](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/openziti.discourse.group/thelumberjack/32/113_2.png) [@TheLumberjack](https://openziti.discourse.group/u/TheLumberjack)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/need-info-on-the-signing-pem-and-cas-pem-file/1828/2 "2023-11-24T15:27:33Z")

</div>

I made an explainer video a while back here [https://youtu.be/Fk2sE0ydVo8](https://youtu.be/Fk2sE0ydVo8)

I also had a discussion with another community member along these lines a few months ago here [What does the quickstart do that I need to do myself?](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/what-does-the-quickstart-do-that-i-need-to-do-myself/1600/) In there that video walks through this file [https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dovholuknf/openziti-compose/main/from-scratch.sh](https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dovholuknf/openziti-compose/main/from-scratch.sh) which is the steps the express install does, narrated.

Let me know if that doesn't get you the answers you need. cheers