# When do old terminators get removed?

**URL:** <https://openziti.discourse.group/t/when-do-old-terminators-get-removed/4265>\
**Category:** General Questions\
**Created:** [March 27, 2025, 9:57am UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/when-do-old-terminators-get-removed/4265 "2025-03-27T09:57:22Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![farmhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@farmhouse](https://openziti.discourse.group/u/farmhouse)\
**Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 9:57am UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/when-do-old-terminators-get-removed/4265/1 "2025-03-27T09:57:22Z")

</div>

Hiya, I have a question about Terminators.

I have a HA Ziti system consisting of 3 Controllers and 2 public Edge Routers. I'm running v1.5.0 on the infrastructure and ZET v1.5.4.

In my POC system i am seeing Terminators created but under specific scenarios they are not deleted which seems to result in old/stale terminators remaining on the system seemingly indefinitely.

One way i can reproduce this behaviour is by applying a new piece of configuration on a Controller.

To begin with i have a single ZET client connected with a terminator on one of my 2 Edge Routers.

```bash
root@ziti-controller-3:~# ziti edge list terminators 'limit 500'
╭───────────────────────┬──────────────┬───────────────────┬─────────┬───────────────────────┬───────────────────────────┬──────┬────────────┬──────────────╮
│ ID │ SERVICE │ ROUTER │ BINDING │ ADDRESS │ IDENTITY │ COST │ PRECEDENCE │ DYNAMIC COST │
├───────────────────────┼──────────────┼───────────────────┼─────────┼───────────────────────┼───────────────────────────┼──────┼────────────┼──────────────┤
│ 2Elzi7EeaSVko56JXaKeH │ lifeboat.ssh │ edge-router-detof │ edge │ 2Elzi7EeaSVko56JXaKeH │ user1.lifeboat.controller │ 0 │ default │ 0 │
╰───────────────────────┴──────────────┴───────────────────┴─────────┴───────────────────────┴───────────────────────────┴──────┴────────────┴──────────────╯
results: 1-1 of 1

```

If i update my host.v1 configuration on a Controller, it triggers an update across the system and new terminators are created.  
`ziti edge update config ...`

Now i have a new terminator for the same identity.

```bash
root@ziti-controller-3:~# ziti edge list terminators 'limit 500'
╭───────────────────────┬──────────────┬───────────────────┬─────────┬───────────────────────┬───────────────────────────┬──────┬────────────┬──────────────╮
│ ID │ SERVICE │ ROUTER │ BINDING │ ADDRESS │ IDENTITY │ COST │ PRECEDENCE │ DYNAMIC COST │
├───────────────────────┼──────────────┼───────────────────┼─────────┼───────────────────────┼───────────────────────────┼──────┼────────────┼──────────────┤
│ 2Elzi7EeaSVko56JXaKeH │ lifeboat.ssh │ edge-router-detof │ edge │ 2Elzi7EeaSVko56JXaKeH │ user1.lifeboat.controller │ 0 │ default │ 0 │
│ Ei67QOcmkbeBzvMbEHYmB │ lifeboat.ssh │ edge-router-detof │ edge │ Ei67QOcmkbeBzvMbEHYmB │ user1.lifeboat.controller │ 0 │ default │ 0 │
╰───────────────────────┴──────────────┴───────────────────┴─────────┴───────────────────────┴───────────────────────────┴──────┴────────────┴──────────────╯
results: 1-2 of 2

```

The original terminator with ID `2Elzi7EeaSVko56JXaKeH` i assume is now stale/old but it never seems to be deleted. Is this a problem ?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![ekoby](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/free1/user_avatar/openziti.discourse.group/ekoby/32/14_2.png) [@ekoby](https://openziti.discourse.group/u/ekoby)\
**Post date:** [March 27, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/when-do-old-terminators-get-removed/4265/2 "2025-03-27T19:04:31Z")

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yes, that wrong.

You stumbled upon a really old [bug](https://github.com/openziti/ziti-tunnel-sdk-c/issues/197) that was never fixed.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![farmhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@farmhouse](https://openziti.discourse.group/u/farmhouse)\
**Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 1:25pm UTC](https://openziti.discourse.group/t/when-do-old-terminators-get-removed/4265/3 "2025-04-02T13:25:26Z")

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Thanks @ekoby.

It seems that these stale/old terminators also occur as a result of a number of other conditions.

For example. If i prevent inbound client connections to my Controllers and Edge routers with a firewall rule for a period of time, then re-open the firewall to allow inbound connections. New terminators are created when the clients resume connection but old terminators remain indefinitely.